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Htpc upgrade

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Teddyboy
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Htpc upgrade

Post by Teddyboy » Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:29 pm

In the near future I’m looking to up grade my htpc to more modern hardware in anticipation of UHD 4K movies. The form factor has to be itx because my case is a hdplex heatsink case. I really like the small form factor, and it’s dead silent. My current platform is a DH61AG ITX motherboard with a Core i3 3.3 ghz cpu with built in intel graphics. My current platform play Blu-rays flawlessly, but it’s long in the tooth.

It’s just a media player no dvd duties. That’s left to my Tivo but I’m considering cutting the cord and streaming exclusively. I may just get a HDHomeRun to record local channels Ota. What recommendation would some of you have for me given my criteria.
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Pauven
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Re: Htpc upgrade

Post by Pauven » Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:11 am

Let me see if I've got the requirements down:
  • You already have a case - an HDPlex heatsink case - and you need a motherboard that will fit the case
  • You need an ITX motherboard, and since the case has the built-in CPU cooler, the CPU socket has to be in a standardized location
  • There is no room for a discrete GPU, so you need a motherboard+CPU with integrated graphics
  • It will NOT have an optical disc drive
  • You primarily will use it to play ripped movies (DVDs, Blu-rays, UHD 4K Blu-rays)
  • You will also stream content from the internet
  • You're considering getting an HDHomeRun, and would want to use the HTPC to watch recorded OTA content too
  • You don't mention gaming, so gaming is not a requirement
Does that seem right?

Normally, for watching 4K Blu-rays, you are required to have a PC that supports Intel's Software Guard Extensions (SGX). This means certain Intel CPU's with integrated Intel graphics (not a Devil's Canyon that is an Intel CPU with integrated AMD graphics). But this would also mean that you would need an optical disc drive (ODD).

Since you won't be using an ODD, that means to play ripped content from your server, you would need something from a little red fox or similar tool that lets you play these rips. And if you're using these tools, the Intel SGX requirement is also removed.

That pretty much means you can use any CPU with integrated graphics, as long as it fits a motherboard in an ITX form factor and has the CPU in the standard location and is compatible with your special HDPlex heatsink case.

What is the cooling capacity of your HDPlex case? I'm wondering if it needs a low power CPU <35W, or if it can handle 65W CPUs or even 95W/105W CPUs. Which specific HDPlex case do you have (there seems to be several)?

In general, I would think a low wattage CPU would be a wise choice for a passively cooled installation, and newer CPU's with support for advanced video codecs make a lot of sense here.

Do you have any preference, Intel vs. AMD?

Budget?

What CPU is in your current HTPC?

Paul
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Jamie
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Re: Htpc upgrade

Post by Jamie » Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:24 pm

Pauven wrote: Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:11 am Let me see if I've got the requirements down:

the Intel SGX requirement is also removed.
Hi,

Regarding the fox, it does not remove the Powerdvd requirement to have Intel UHD graphics if you have the foxes software. I placed a question in the foxes forum on that very subject over a year ago and it turned out the intel integrated GPU is still required to play UHD content through Powerdvd. This was related to Powerdvd 18 and below. I do not know if that has changed with new versions.

I have also heard that SGX is very finicky even if you meet all the specs

Jriver, and the DVDfab Player will play UHD graphics without requiring an Intel integrated GPU. They both have full menu support for 4k UHD and blurays

I use NUCs for my HTPC requirements and they have served me well. I don't have UHD yet but hope to in the future.

Please post your final specs for your UHD HTPC onec you have the specs and have it running. I would be interested.

Jamie

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Re: Htpc upgrade

Post by Jamie » Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:42 pm

Here is the thread that I posted on the foxes forum. Sorry if this breaks a rule Paul but it is in the general forum over there and it answers the question regarding sgx.



TeddyBoy, If Paul has to take this post down goto the foxes forum and search the general forum for user Jamie.

Jamie
Last edited by Jamie on Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Teddyboy
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Re: Htpc upgrade

Post by Teddyboy » Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:06 pm

Paul all the points you listed are correct. Money is not really a issue, but I don’t think I’ll have to spend a ton of it to get what I need. I prefer intel cpus. Current cpu is a i3-3225 3.3 ghz 55w. The maximum cpu TDP for the H.1S V2 case is 65w. Yes integrated graphics is a requirement. The cpu, motherboard, and ssd is powered by a 80w internal power supply that I bought from Larry (HDPLEX) when I ordered the case. I think the power supply should be okay, but I can upgrade to a larger power supply if I need to.

Larry has a extensive list of motherboards that his product line of htpc cases support, so I picked one from his list rather then play pin the tail on the donkey.
I like Asrock, so I picked the H370M-ITX/ac LGA 1151 $108.99 from Newegg.
https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813157817.
How about a Intel Core i3-8100 Coffee Lake Quad-Core 3.6 GHz LGA 1151 (300 Series) 65W for 159.99. https://www.newegg.com/core-i3-8th-gen- ... eviews=all.
CORSAIR Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3000 (PC4 24000) 79.49.
https://www.newegg.com/corsair-16gb-288 ... -_-Product.

I have a existing m2 64gb ssd, so I could use that as my boot drive or get a bigger drive. I think it might be best to replace it with something more modern like a Intel 660p Series M.2 2280 512GB PCI-Express 3.0 ssd for 59.99.
https://www.newegg.com/intel-660p-serie ... 002V-003Y7

So for $440 including tax with free shipping from Newegg, I’ll get updated hardware capable of playing 4K UHD. Your thoughts?

I’ve been using the little red fox for years. Paul it’s the only way I can reliably rip the movies that I BUY to my collection. I hate messing with stupid discs. I found this really neat front end that will extract movie and tv series metadata through the MM api, and it will even make my coffee in the morning. :mrgreen:
Last edited by Teddyboy on Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mechanical Engineer, Solidworks junkie, Reef aquariums, sci-fi, weight training, orchids, Ferns, Kaiju, model kit building, balboa park, scripps aquarium

Teddyboy
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Location: San Diego, Ca

Re: Htpc upgrade

Post by Teddyboy » Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:13 pm

Hi Jamie,

Thanks for the info. I do read that forum frequently. I’m not using powerdvd. I’m using jriver. I don’t like power dvd. Initially I’m going to bring up CMC on my existing hardware and use it as it is currently configured. Let me know what you think of the hardware I selected.

Efrain
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Pauven
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Re: Htpc upgrade

Post by Pauven » Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:20 am

Odd, I use to get SGX errors trying to play my purchased 4K discs, but for me foxy made them all go away. The last time I tried to play a 4K on PowerDVD it didn't work, but worked fine on MPC. So perhaps PowerDVD is still restricted somehow. But I thought I had played some 4K on PowerDVD too.

Where can I see Larry's list?
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Teddyboy
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Re: Htpc upgrade

Post by Teddyboy » Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:16 pm

Go to his site hdplex.com and pick a case. Then choose hardware compatibility. You will see a extensive list based on the motherboards cpu socket type. Pick a cpu socket and then you’ll see a list of motherboards that will fit in that case.
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Pauven
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Re: Htpc upgrade

Post by Pauven » Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:57 pm

Since you like JRiver, and also use MPC, I'm going to assume that you are using LAV and madVR enhancements. For those, you need a bit more horsepower, so I kept that in mind as I looked at options.

Are you using HDMI audio, or separate audio out from the motherboard? I'm guessing HDMI audio since you didn't mention audio earlier.

Just checked out the HDPlex website, and I see that the H1.S (sweet case, btw!) CPU heatsink system supports a bunch of intel sockets, plus "APU with AM4/AM2/AM3/FM1/FM2 socket".

I know you said you prefer intel, but since you are building a dedicated HTPC, I think it is worth considering a modern AMD APU on the AM4 platform. AMD's graphics are superior to Intel, unless you want the Intel SGX feature which AMD doesn't offer. I don't know if you would ever plug in a Blu-ray drive via USB and want SGX, but I'm assuming that is not something you would do, so having SGX support is pretty much pointless.

The AMD Ryzen 5 3400G is a Quad-Core 3.7 GHz base / 4.2 GHz Max Boost 65W CPU, and it has built-in Radeon RX Vega 11 graphics. It's only $150, and that includes the cooler which you don't need, and you could sell that on Ebay for $10-20 if you wanted. The Radeon RX Vega 11 will also handle the HDMI audio out, so again it's a solid choice. https://www.newegg.com/amd-ryzen-3-3200 ... 6819113571

That Ryzen 5 3400G is faster than the i3-8100 in pretty much every test, and has immensely more powerful graphics.

Plenty of motherboard options too. Like you, I like ASRock motherboards (I think everything in the house right now is ASRock).

The ASRock A320M-ITX AM4 is a nice budget option at $95, and will probably do everything you need for HTPC duty. https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E1681315783 ... -_-Product

If you want the newer AMD 4xx series chipset, for $170 you can get the ASRock Fatal1ty X470 Gaming-ITX/ac AM4. Seems like overkill for non-gaming, non-overclocking HTPC purposes. But it does have 1 Display Port and 1 HDMI, where-as the A320 above has 2 HDMI. https://www.newegg.com/asrock-fatal1ty- ... -_-Product

Both motherboards above have the Realtek ALC1220 audio chipset with 7.1 output, which is a great audio solution (if you're not using HDMI audio). The A320 should run with lower power and heat, as the chipset is very basic and power efficient - perfect for an ITX in a HTPC.

Regarding memory, I would always pick that last, and pick something from the motherboard's QVL to make sure it has been tested to work with that motherboard - especially if you go the AMD route, as it is a little more finicky on memory. 16GB in a 2x8GB configuration sounds good.

A 64GB drive should be plenty for Windows + HTPC software. If you are planning on storing videos or recording to the HTPC, then definitely step up to a larger drive - and for that even 512GB sounds kind of small for recordings. That same drive in a 1TB for $95 is a sweet deal. But if all you will be keeping on the drive is Windows and HTPC software, your 64GB drive should be fine (unless it is really a slow M2 SSD and not a faster M2 NVMe drive - small distinction, but big difference in performance).

Ultimately, I don't think you could go wrong with either path, the i3-8100 you picked out, or the AMD Ryzen 5 3400G above. If I was chasing SGX functionality, I would go the Intel route, but if you have no plans to play physical 4K discs via a USB Blu-ray drive, then the superior graphics horsepower of the AMD gets my vote.
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Teddyboy
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Re: Htpc upgrade

Post by Teddyboy » Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:43 am

Jriver already comes with LAV and Madvr built in. They’re sandboxed and not accessible to MPC if I remember correctly. I only use MPC for the ability to playback dvd episodes. If jriver did that, then I wouldn’t be using MPC. I should put in a request for dvd title and chapter playback.

You’ve given me some things to think about. I haven’t decided on hardware just yet. It’s a pretty sweet case. It’s priced well and Larry is very responds quickly. The only other heatsink case line is from atech fabrication, and they’re expensive. I keep going back and fourth about whether to have a drive in the case or not. The Ryzen cpu you listed is now $99 bucks at Newegg. I’ve never used a AMD platform before. I should really take a closer look at it. I’m using hdmi audio but eventually I’m going to get a audio receiver. Probably this one https://www.crutchfield.com/p_033HEOSAV ... S-AVR.html.

I may end up ditching my Tivo and going with a silicondust homerun for OTA recording of local stations. Cable is EXPENSIVE here. I pay about 190.00 a month, I don’t watch that much tv and I stream a lot of content. directvnow would probably be a good solution for me. The platform has dvd cloud capability. More then enough for what I would record. So it’s possible to do all this on my htpc but I loose the integration when searching for content. We’ll see. I could get a OTA Tivo which does not have directvnow or a appketv which silicon dust still has not come out with their dvr app yet (they keep saying soon) and keep the htpc for just ripped movies and music.
Mechanical Engineer, Solidworks junkie, Reef aquariums, sci-fi, weight training, orchids, Ferns, Kaiju, model kit building, balboa park, scripps aquarium

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