Decorum for the Forum:
  • Be nice. If you want to be mean, try Reddit.
  • No Piracy. If you want to be a thief, there are dark places on the internet dedicated to that.
  • No Cracking. Discussions on AnyDVD, DeUHD, DVDFab, UHDKeys and similar tools are not permitted here.
  • No Spamming. If you want to make a buck, work smarter... somewhere else.
  • No Adult Content. Half the internet is dedicated to adult content. This half isn't.

Privacy Policy: Click Here to Review (updated September 30, 2020)

Windows 11 - Will you upgrade and will CMC support it?

General support forum for Chameleon MediaCenter (formerly MM Browser)
Post Reply
Jamie
Posts: 672
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:26 pm

Windows 11 - Will you upgrade and will CMC support it?

Post by Jamie » Sat Jun 26, 2021 10:51 pm

I created this topic in order to get a discussion started for Windows 11. Paul, move this if you desire to move it.

Here are the current requirements as they now stand.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows ... ifications

Here are the current features

https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/24/2254 ... es-updates

I have noticed that TPM 2.0 is required? Will this be a killer for you?

Local accounts will not be allowed on the home edition. It may be allowed on the Pro version.

It will not come out as a windows 10 upgrade until the first of next year. Some new PCs may be purchased with it installed in the fall. The insiders edition will come out the end of June.

Paul, do you think it will be able to run CMC?

User avatar
Pauven
Posts: 2051
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:28 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Contact:

Re: Windows 11 - Will you upgrade and will CMC support it?

Post by Pauven » Sun Jun 27, 2021 3:14 pm

Jamie wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 10:51 pm
Paul, do you think it will be able to run CMC?
So far I haven't seen any changes that would prevent CMC from running. It's possible that there could be some minor compatibility tweaks required to get proper functionality and GUI appearance in CMC. My intention is to fully support Win11, though it's too early to make any promises since I haven't even played with it.

I was encouraged by the Linus Tech Tips video on the leaked alpha of Win11, everything pretty much ran without issue.

From what I can tell, Win11 is basically just Win10 with some mandatory security features, plus some new functionality they are withholding from Win10 to entice people to upgrade (i.e. Direct Storage). While I've read a lot of articles dissing on Microsoft for breaking backwards compatibility with this TPM requirement, I actually applaud Microsoft and fully support the path they are taking. TPM 1.2 has been available since 2006, and TPM 2.0 since 2014 (not 2019 as is being often misquoted in tech articles, that is just the date of the latest change ratification), yet support is still missing on a lot of non-business PC's. This became a big issue over the past year during the pandemic and hardware shortages, as many employees began using non-business PC's for business purposes, and IT departments struggled with the lack of TPM support. TPM and other technologies will also enable many great new security features in the future, so these are all features we should all be demanding of our PC's, even if we aren't using these features today.

Microsoft is essentially forcing the hand of PC manufacturers to include these features by default, something MS originally planned to do in 2015. And instead of really polluting the water and pissing off users by making this a new Win10 requirement to keep getting upgrades, they have drawn a clear line in the sand and made this requirement a Win11 requirement only. Don't meet the requirement, simply keep running Win10. Win10 will be fully supported through 2025, and much like Win7 will likely keep working long after. Meet the requirement, then get a free upgrade to Win11 along with some bonus new functionality. I don't think anyone has a right to complain, and if your recently purchased hardware doesn't have TPM support, don't blame MS but rather your PC motherboard vendor. Like I said, MS has been pushing for this for years, and hardware vendors have taken advantage of MS relenting back in 2015 on making TPM standard - it is the hardware vendors that have purposefully let out these security related components, probably in the hopes of forcing new hardware purchases in the future (and the future is now...).

Jamie wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 10:51 pm
I have noticed that TPM 2.0 is required? Will this be a killer for you?
TPM functionality is irrelevant to CMC. Having it or not having it will make no difference, CMC just doesn't make use of this capability.

On the other hand, I'm not yet sure which of my PC's will support it, so that could be a factor in my ability to upgrade to Win11 and do development and testing. I'm fairly confident my HTPC, running an AMD Ryzen 3700, will have fTPM at the very least.

My office workstation runs an AMD Threadripper 2950X, and I think I would have to get a TPM module for it, and I'm confused if that requires BIOS support. My google-fu turned up some disheartening reports of users trying to use a TPM module with an undocumented port on a similar Asrock motherboard and I don't think they got it to work. The manual does make reference to fTPM, so perhaps that's an option. That said, I've always intended for this workstation setup to be temporary, with the motherboard/CPU/RAM going into my Unraid server in the future for a nice VM performance upgrade. I've been waiting on the next generation of Threadrippers (5960x????) to build my next workstation, though AMD sure is taking their sweet time. I'm fairly confident this next hardware build will have full TPM support, so even if my current setup doesn't have it that would only be a temporary delay.


I'm more curious if users can get WMC running on Win11. Microsoft has been pretty good at breaking it on Win10, and I wonder if they be more extreme on Win11 to really stop users porting WMC to it.
President, Chameleon Consulting LLC
Author, Chameleon MediaCenter

Jamie
Posts: 672
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:26 pm

Re: Windows 11 - Will you upgrade and will CMC support it?

Post by Jamie » Sun Jun 27, 2021 5:27 pm

Hi Paul,

I would be surprised if CMC 4.2 could not run under Windows 11. At least it should run under the Pro edition. You can never tell what they might break until it is tested though.

I hear that the changes are mostly cosmetic and that they have not changed the underpinnings of the OS. Windows 11 is pretty and is looking more like the MAC OS with the rounded icons and windows. The start menu now pops up in the middle.

Do you know if any CMC users run the home version? If they are using a local account it will be removed in the upgrade and they will be required to create a MS account. From what I understand the Pro edition will still allow local accounts. The home edition will require internet access at all times. All versions will require internet access for initial setup and subsequent updates.

I can not upgrade my current PCs because they don't have TPM. No loss though as long as Windows 10 is supported until 2025. I was going to sign up for the insider testing but that is shot down now. Insiders should have access to Windows 11 this week.

I will probably move to windows 11 when I build or buy a new PC. I was going to buy a new NUC but I may wait a little longer to see what Intel does with integrated graphics on some new desktop CPU. I hear that AMD is leaving intel in the dust in regard to their new CPUs with their integrated graphics.

I want to be able to run PowerDVD 20 with HDR in 4K which means that I need Intel integrated graphics. I don't know why but I want the ability to run Powerdvd 20 and Jriver. My budget is shot to Hell since I am trying to pay off my medical bills due to my hospital stay. That might be a blessing since I have more time to see what falls out in the PC market.

Jamie

User avatar
Pauven
Posts: 2051
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:28 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Contact:

Re: Windows 11 - Will you upgrade and will CMC support it?

Post by Pauven » Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:30 am

Jamie wrote:
Sun Jun 27, 2021 5:27 pm
Do you know if any CMC users run the home version?
I have no idea. I have zero visibility into what users are running or watching, I like to provide privacy.

It's quite possible that someone has mentioned this to me in an email, but at the moment I don't recall any users ever mentioning this. If I had to wager, I'd guess at least 10-20% are running Home, just seems too unlikely that no one is.

Now, I think my HTPC might be Win10 Home. I typically only do Pro, but I recall that a Pro feature I was looking for a few months ago was missing on that PC, which makes me think it might have been Home. Odds are it's Pro, but I'd have to doublecheck.

Jamie wrote:
Sun Jun 27, 2021 5:27 pm
If they are using a local account it will be removed in the upgrade and they will be required to create a MS account. From what I understand the Pro edition will still allow local accounts. The home edition will require internet access at all times. All versions will require internet access for initial setup and subsequent updates.
Yeah, I had definitely picked up on that little detail. I will never run Win11 Home for this reason.

It's so cheap to pick up Win10 Pro keys for under $10 on those key reseller sites, that there's no real excuse for not getting Pro. A few years back I bought 5 keys for around $60, and still have a couple spare keys for future builds. I was skeptical at first, but the keys have worked flawlessly. Apparently MS sells Windows and Office for far cheaper in other countries - priced to their local markets - but those keys work worldwide.

Jamie wrote:
Sun Jun 27, 2021 5:27 pm
I can not upgrade my current PCs because they don't have TPM.
You double-checked the BIOS for fTPM, and the motherboard for a TPM port? Either one and you're good-to-go.

Jamie wrote:
Sun Jun 27, 2021 5:27 pm
I hear that AMD is leaving intel in the dust in regard to their new CPUs with their integrated graphics.
Intel is doing something super-weird. They have two classes of integrated graphics. Desktop integrated graphics are weak, and yes AMD leaves them in their dust. But Intel's mobile graphics (same used in their NUCs) are actually quite powerful. Why in the world Intel won't include their mobile graphics solution on desktop is beyond me. Intel's 11th generation mobile/NUC integrated graphics sure look interesting.

Jamie wrote:
Sun Jun 27, 2021 5:27 pm
I want to be able to run PowerDVD 20 with HDR in 4K which means that I need Intel integrated graphics.
I still haven't been able to pick up an Nvidia 1650 card to test on that HTPC build if PowerDVD 20 HDR works on NVidia. The GPU market is finally starting to return to normal, so perhaps in a few months it might be possible.

Jamie wrote:
Sun Jun 27, 2021 5:27 pm
My budget is shot to Hell since I am trying to pay off my medical bills due to my hospital stay. That might be a blessing since I have more time to see what falls out in the PC market.
I applaud your ability to look on the bright side, and understand all too well your financial pain.
President, Chameleon Consulting LLC
Author, Chameleon MediaCenter

Jamie
Posts: 672
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:26 pm

Re: Windows 11 - Will you upgrade and will CMC support it?

Post by Jamie » Mon Jun 28, 2021 3:41 pm

Pauven wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:30 am

I have no idea. I have zero visibility into what users are running or watching, I like to provide privacy.
That's quite commendable. At my job, we used to track the browser, the OS, and a lot of other statistics. You would be amazed by the information a browser or programming language could track. Just look at the fox's logs. I believe you know this. I am just stating this for other readers
Pauven wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:30 am


Yeah, I had definitely picked up on that little detail. I will never run Win11 Home for this reason.

It's so cheap to pick up Win10 Pro keys for under $10 on those key reseller sites, that there's no real excuse for not getting Pro. A few years back I bought 5 keys for around $60, and still have a couple spare keys for future builds. I was skeptical at first, but the keys have worked flawlessly. Apparently MS sells Windows and Office for far cheaper in other countries - priced to their local markets - but those keys work worldwide.
I will have to check this out on a future build.
Pauven wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:30 am

You double-checked the BIOS for fTPM, and the motherboard for a TPM port? Either one and you're good-to-go.
Yes. I was surprised that my laptop and NUCs do not have TPM. I also checked the specs for each machine
Pauven wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:30 am

I applaud your ability to look on the bright side, and understand all too well your financial pain.
I have learned to accept the reality of the situation and learned to accept whatever comes up.

User avatar
Pauven
Posts: 2051
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:28 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Contact:

Re: Windows 11 - Will you upgrade and will CMC support it?

Post by Pauven » Mon Jun 28, 2021 3:48 pm

Jamie wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 3:41 pm
Pauven wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:30 am
I have no idea. I have zero visibility into what users are running or watching, I like to provide privacy.
That's quite commendable. At my job, we used to track the browser, the OS, and a lot of other statistics. You would be amazed by the information a browser or programming language could track. Just look at the fox's logs. I believe you know this. I am just stating this for other readers
At times I've struggled with this. Sometimes I think it would be helpful to know what platforms users are running, and what CMC features they are utilizing. Ultimately I rely on the forums and emails to let users share whatever info they want to willingly share.
President, Chameleon Consulting LLC
Author, Chameleon MediaCenter

User avatar
Pauven
Posts: 2051
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:28 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Contact:

Re: Windows 11 - Will you upgrade and will CMC support it?

Post by Pauven » Wed Oct 13, 2021 2:49 pm

By the way, I got an email from Chef a few days back, and I think he'd be okay with me sharing this note:
Chefpj wrote:Also I am running window 11 on one of my test systems and CMC is running fine on it.
Yay!

I'm not ready to take the plunge on Win11 just yet, so it's good that it just works.

I updated my development tools recently, and the new version has enhancements for Win11, so CMC v5 will be even better suited to Win11 (no idea what that even means to us, but hey, it's true).
President, Chameleon Consulting LLC
Author, Chameleon MediaCenter

Jamie
Posts: 672
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:26 pm

Re: Windows 11 - Will you upgrade and will CMC support it?

Post by Jamie » Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:10 pm

That's good news, Paul. Just an FYI for your users. I read recently that MS may allow people to install win 11 using their full upgrade installer, "The creative tool installer", even if they do not have TPM and the other security requirements. The caveat is that it will not be supported and they may not get security updates in the future like win 10 does. I don't know why someone would want to do this, So beware. This was in an article for one of the PC mags I read. I don't remember which one. I read PC mag, PC World, and Maximum PC.

Jamie

User avatar
Pauven
Posts: 2051
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:28 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Contact:

Re: Windows 11 - Will you upgrade and will CMC support it?

Post by Pauven » Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:25 pm

Thanks for the tip. I had seen something about that, but didn't pay too much attention as I'm currently put off by Win11. Lots of reports of performance degradations, especially on AMD Ryzen (which I have). It feels rushed and half-baked, so I'm content to let it continue to develop for a while before I board ship.

The only feature in Win11 I really want is the fix for window positions on multi-monitor setups after resuming from sleep. That bug has nagged me daily for years. I was excited when the fix was coming to Win10 when they announced it earlier this year. Now I'm pissed that they made a bug fix a Win11 only "enhancement". Marketing shenanigans.
President, Chameleon Consulting LLC
Author, Chameleon MediaCenter

Post Reply