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[Partially in v3.0] Sticky Categories & Filters and visual indicator that Titles are being Filtered

Post here to suggest ideas for future versions.
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Re: [Partially in v3.0] Sticky Categories & Filters and visual indicator that Titles are being Filtered

Post by Jamie » Mon Oct 28, 2019 4:47 pm

Manni wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2019 4:14 pm
PS another brief off-topic: I had an exchange with Brian recently regarding the disappearing MPLS info for TV series episode info, we have identified the reason, Brian was able to reproduce and has all the info, so hopefully a fix will come as soon as he can get to it. :)

This is great news. I thought I was losing my mind for a while when I noticed some of my Bluray series being flagged by CMC sync after I knew I had fixed them several times

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Re: [Partially in v3.0] Sticky Categories & Filters and visual indicator that Titles are being Filtered

Post by Pauven » Mon Oct 28, 2019 4:55 pm

So has Brian hinted at when the next version of My Movies will come out? Hope it's not another 2+ year wait...
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Re: [Partially in v3.0] Sticky Categories & Filters and visual indicator that Titles are being Filtered

Post by Manni » Mon Oct 28, 2019 5:09 pm

I've been locking my TV Series ever since I became aware of that bug :)

There is no downside, unless the profile is not complete, in which case of course you "freeze" them in an uncomplete stage.

Can you link me to your request, or provide a clear description that I can forward to Brian?

Re other examples of filters, here are a few of mine:
Thrillers to watch (combination of genre and status)
Unwatched Atmos titles using Front Wides (combination of a manual category and status)
Action to watch with my 13 year old (applying a specific genre to a manual category taking into account the watched status)
Animation to watch with my 6 year old (same principle, different child/list!)
Etc...
Really anything that can't be covered by categories or a combination of categories, unless you maintain them (add/take out) manually in a custom category.

Thanks for the tips for 1). Yes it helps, but it's still a lot of unnecessary work compared to more keystrokes, because you still have to look for the titles among many others.

Great to hear that 2-4 are still on your list, and that you're getting closer to reaching them in your to-do list.

I'm a patient person :)

Thanks again for everything, much appreciated. Looking forward to discovering 3.0 in a few days. :)

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Re: [Partially in v3.0] Sticky Categories & Filters and visual indicator that Titles are being Filtered

Post by Pauven » Mon Oct 28, 2019 6:45 pm

Manni wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2019 5:09 pm Can you link me to your request, or provide a clear description that I can forward to Brian?

https://www.mymovies.dk/forum.aspx?g=posts&t=45225


Ok, let's see if I understand your examples (thanks for sharing, btw!):

Manni wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2019 5:09 pm Thrillers to watch (combination of genre and status)

So, by Status you mean Watched/Unwatched? So Genre="Thriller" and Status=Unwatched? Seems pretty easy to do in CMC today.


Manni wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2019 5:09 pm Unwatched Atmos titles using Front Wides (combination of a manual category and status)

So you create a Category for "Atmos with Front Wides"? How do you know that a title has Front Wides, I didn't think Atmos had channels? Again, this example seems pretty easy to do in CMC today if you've already created the custom Category.


Manni wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2019 5:09 pm Action to watch with my 13 year old (applying a specific genre to a manual category taking into account the watched status)

So, Genre="Action", Status=Unwatched, and Parental Rating = PG-13 or less? If so, this is doable in CMC v3.0.


Manni wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2019 5:09 pm Animation to watch with my 6 year old (same principle, different child/list!)

So, Genre="Animation", Status=Unwatched, and Parental Rating = G (or maybe PG)? Again, CMC v3.0 makes this doable.


While all of those examples are filterable in CMC v3.0, for those last two I do see a slight benefit to having a predefined combo-filter, so that you don't have to separately select a Genre/Category, and set the Age Limit. But at the same time, I'm not crazy about the workflow: Configure the filter in MMCM, then somehow export the filter's results to CMC (which is something that has to keep exporting with every new title change in MMCM), so you can select the filter in CMC and enjoy the results.

My thoughts on how to do this are a two-step approach:

1) Make sure that everything you need to filter on is filterable in CMC. That includes the new changes to CMC v3.0 (Disc Type, Video Format, Parental Rating), plus previous filtering capability (Watched Status, Genres, Custom Categories, Search, WatchList), plus many additional elements in the future (i.e. Audio Types, Stars Rating, etc.). Please share additional filter criteria to help with this development!

2) Look into creating Custom Combo-Filters directly in CMC. I think this could work as follows: a) Set up your filters, b) Save the current combination of all filters as a Custom Combo-Filter with a name of your choosing, c) In the future, re-apply all the filters with a single selection of a Custom Combo-Filter that you select from a list.

So it is similar to what you are doing today in MMCM, the difference is that you would do it in CMC instead. And it would dynamically update as title changes come in.

Does that sound like it would fit the bill? Anyone else interested in these "Custom Combo-Filters"?
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Re: [Partially in v3.0] Sticky Categories & Filters and visual indicator that Titles are being Filtered

Post by Manni » Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:50 pm

Pauven wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2019 6:45 pm So, by Status you mean Watched/Unwatched? So Genre="Thriller" and Status=Unwatched? Seems pretty easy to do in CMC today.
Filters is empty in CMC today, so I have no idea how to do this in CMC today (in one step).
Pauven wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2019 6:45 pm So you create a Category for "Atmos with Front Wides"? How do you know that a title has Front Wides, I didn't think Atmos had channels? Again, this example seems pretty easy to do in CMC today if you've already created the custom Category.
There are no channels in Atmos when studios use it as it was defined, i.e. with a base layer and metadata defining objects positioning. In that case, wides can be used to various degrees, from very much to almost not at all.

Unfortunately, a lot of studios (Marvel, Disney) "pre-render" to a fixed 7.1.4 layout (fixed channels, no objects). With these titles, the wides (and the middle in a .6 layout) are silent the whole time.

There is no way to find this info on in the disc metadata, so it's a manual category that I have created that I only apply to titles that do use the front wides.
Pauven wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2019 6:45 pm So, Genre="Action", Status=Unwatched, and Parental Rating = PG-13 or less? If so, this is doable in CMC v3.0.
Pauven wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2019 6:45 pm So, Genre="Animation", Status=Unwatched, and Parental Rating = G (or maybe PG)? Again, CMC v3.0 makes this doable.
Good to know that CMC 3.0 zero makes this doable, but my example is based on the combination of a manual list (the films I select for each kid) and applying other criterias such as genre and watched status.
Pauven wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2019 6:45 pm While all of those examples are filterable in CMC v3.0, for those last two I do see a slight benefit to having a predefined combo-filter, so that you don't have to separately select a Genre/Category, and set the Age Limit. But at the same time, I'm not crazy about the workflow: Configure the filter in MMCM, then somehow export the filter's results to CMC (which is something that has to keep exporting with every new title change in MMCM), so you can select the filter in CMC and enjoy the results.

My thoughts on how to do this are a two-step approach:

1) Make sure that everything you need to filter on is filterable in CMC. That includes the new changes to CMC v3.0 (Disc Type, Video Format, Parental Rating), plus previous filtering capability (Watched Status, Genres, Custom Categories, Search, WatchList), plus many additional elements in the future (i.e. Audio Types, Stars Rating, etc.). Please share additional filter criteria to help with this development!

2) Look into creating Custom Combo-Filters directly in CMC. I think this could work as follows: a) Set up your filters, b) Save the current combination of all filters as a Custom Combo-Filter with a name of your choosing, c) In the future, re-apply all the filters with a single selection of a Custom Combo-Filter that you select from a list.

So it is similar to what you are doing today in MMCM, the difference is that you would do it in CMC instead. And it would dynamically update as title changes come in.

Does that sound like it would fit the bill? Anyone else interested in these "Custom Combo-Filters"?
All these examples are with a pre-defined category/filter in CM. The interface in CMC makes it really clunky to select a category (or filter) in a long list. I guess it's fine if you only have a few, but I have many and it's just too time consuming if you compare it to the way MyMovies does it: when you click on genre or category, you simply select the one you want, press enter, done. The CMC way is more powerful because it allows you to select more than one, and tell if you want any or all, but that's clunky to do in an interface for categories/filters that you use all the time. It makes a lot more sense to define complex criterias in your filters, and select each filter super quickly in the interface. I guess ideally, you want both (a quick easy access to a few often-used category, and the ability to define complex combos on the fly), but for my use, I deal with the creation in CM and I want the fastest way to select them in the GUI.

I understand that there are limitations due to the lack of data available from the API, but I almost never use categories in CMC because I simply can't deal with 15 keystrokes to select one. This is why I suggested the use of a pop-up list of often accessed categories/filters, or a direct access via a hotkey (that we could program in iRule for example).

The new criteria in 3.0 sound great, especially disc type/video format, and audio format (which I think I suggested a while ago) would be really useful too.

I'll try to check the list in a couple of weeks, I'm snowed under with work right now until the second week of November.

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Re: [Partially in v3.0] Sticky Categories & Filters and visual indicator that Titles are being Filtered

Post by Pauven » Mon Oct 28, 2019 9:08 pm

Manni wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:50 pm Pauven wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2019 6:45 pm
So, by Status you mean Watched/Unwatched? So Genre="Thriller" and Status=Unwatched? Seems pretty easy to do in CMC today.


Filters is empty in CMC today, so I have no idea how to do this in CMC today (in one step).

Technically, this is two steps in CMC. Click the eyeball to toggle between Show Unwatched Only and Show All, and then use the Genres Filter to Filter by Genre. But you can also set CMC to default to Show Unwatched Only on startup, so this would become a 1-step process, simply apply the Genre filter.


Manni wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:50 pm There are no channels in Atmos when studios use it as it was defined, i.e. with a base layer and metadata defining objects positioning. In that case, wides can be used to various degrees, from very much to almost not at all.

Unfortunately, a lot of studios (Marvel, Disney) "pre-render" to a fixed 7.1.4 layout (fixed channels, no objects). With these titles, the wides (and the middle in a .6 layout) are silent the whole time.

There is no way to find this info on in the disc metadata, so it's a manual category that I have created that I only apply to titles that do use the front wides.

That's pretty much what I figured, but thank for clarifying. If it isn't in the metadata, then a Custom Category in MMCM is the only way to do this.


Manni wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:50 pm Good to know that CMC 3.0 zero makes this doable, but my example is based on the combination of a manual list (the films I select for each kid) and applying other criterias such as genre and watched status.

How do you create the manual list? Custom Category? Seems like a lot of work. What is your criteria for choosing films for each kid? I assumed it was the parental rating, but sounds like you have other factors.

If you are using a Custom Category for each kid, then this is doable today in CMC. All of the CMC filters stack on each other. So toggle Watched Status Filter to Show Unwatched Only, select the Genre of "Animation", and select the Category of films you curated for your 6-year old (assuming it has more than Unwatched Animation in it). Yes, that's not quite as quick as a one-step combo-filter so I get your point, but at least that result is achievable.


Manni wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:50 pm All these examples are with a pre-defined category/filter in CM. The interface in CMC makes it really clunky to select a category (or filter) in a long list. I guess it's fine if you only have a few, but I have many and it's just too time consuming if you compare it to the way MyMovies does it: when you click on genre or category, you simply select the one you want, press enter, done. The CMC way is more powerful because it allows you to select more than one, and tell if you want any or all, but that's clunky to do in an interface for categories/filters that you use all the time. It makes a lot more sense to define complex criterias in your filters, and select each filter super quickly in the interface. I guess ideally, you want both (a quick easy access to a few often-used category, and the ability to define complex combos on the fly), but for my use, I deal with the creation in CM and I want the fastest way to select them in the GUI.

All good points, thanks for the perspective.


Manni wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:50 pm I understand that there are limitations due to the lack of data available from the API, but I almost never use categories in CMC because I simply can't deal with 15 keystrokes to select one.

I think you are my user with the most Categories. I have one user with so many that I actually modified the GUI slightly to display more. Sorry if that wasn't you, it's late and it's been a long day, so my brain is foggy.

Me, on the other hand, I have 3 Categories, Comicbook Superheroes, Halloween, and Christmas. And I so rarely use them, that on the occasion that I do I don't find it to be too many keystrokes. Your experience is obviously very different than mine.

But your answer here makes me wonder: How many Filters do you have in MMCM, or would you have in CMC? I can't help imagining that with so many Genres, Categories, and Kids, that you will end up with dozens of Filters, and still have to deal with 15 keystrokes just to select one.


Manni wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:50 pm This is why I suggested the use of a pop-up list of often accessed categories/filters, or a direct access via a hotkey (that we could program in iRule for example).

Hmmm, while that's a good idea, it would certainly take some work. Have to think about that...

What is iRule?
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Re: [Partially in v3.0] Sticky Categories & Filters and visual indicator that Titles are being Filtered

Post by Manni » Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:23 am

Yes, I know some of the examples above can be done in two steps or more in CMC, but that's precisely why I have filters/categories: so that I can apply a complex filter that I often use in one step.

The manual lists for my kids is simply updated when add a title: I decided if one of my kids would want to watch it (or if I can get them to watch it) and add it to the list. I also have a 4K UHD Bluray and an Atmos category that I populate that way, simply because 4K UHD wasn't available as a disk type initially, and because Atmos isn't a category. I also have a category for discs that I can't rip (for example due to a protection so I know I have to rip them later), etc. Believe me, with 3500 titles, you have to stay organised!

In CM it takes about half a second: right click on title on the list, select the custom category in popup list, done. You don't even have to save the title. So very easy to do. That allows me to get these in categories, in one step. I use filters for more complex things, ie when I want to filter by genre and or watched status.

It might be me you changed the GUI for, it was a long time ago and I work 16 hours a day at the moment, so my brain is foggy too :)

I work in film and I also teach a lot. So my collection is for pleasure, but also for work/research. I watch lots of films when I'm attached to a project or to prepare a lecture/workshop to get the best clips to illustrate some points, so I also have complex filters by genre etc. This is why I need the fastest possible access to a film / TV Series. I can watch five films a day or ten hours of series content during some periods of intense work. I also do some testing for madVR for example to help with the development, so I need to get to the specific clip I'm looking for in a specific film as quickly as possible. I guess this is why speed is of the essence, and why I use so many categories/filters: it's not just to watch a film once a day or once a week, it's to do that and do hours of research during the day and often hours of testing at night as well. Not all the time, of course, but when it's like that, CMC is very slow compared to CM.

I'm aware that my needs are very specific and I don't expect you to taylor CMC to them :). It would just be great for everyone if CMC could get closer to the level of efficiency of MyMovies in MCE in this area. As long as you expect the user to go all the way up a list that takes half the screen to check a box and go all the way down to apply a filter/category, it will take a lot longer (twice on average, sometimes a lot more!) than the MyMovies way, which is a simple select and click. Another example: to go faster in MCE, I use the first letter of a category/filter to force a filter/category to be first accessible (using @ in the name if necessary). It works in MyMovies because the first category/filter alphabetically is the first selectable in the list, but it doesn't work in CMC because the first in the list in the furthest away (you have to go all the way to the top, then all the way back down). So all the tricks I created to get faster become moot in CMC...

At the moment I have thirty categories. I could prune that list a bit, but I don't think I'll ever have less than 20. I use them a lot because it's so easy to add a title to them in CM (right click, select, done). Same amount for filters. I suggest you add twenty categories in your collection and compare the way it works after you've added categories and filters on line 1 and 2 of the MyMovies interface, so that they are on the main menu. I have categories on line 2 as I use them more often than filters. You'll see the difference is very significant in favor of MyMovies.

By the way, a minor request if it's easy to implement: I have four NAS boxes and a dozen of shares (I rip my discs in different shares depending mostly on the disc type, but also other factors, such as how often I need to access them: one box is on all day, others are on occasionally, others are mostly off). While I can add them all manually to the CMC config, they can't all be seen during a sync. Please could you centre the shares list vertically during a sync so that we can see as many shares as possible on that screen? Also it would be nice if at some point we could add a share without having to edit the CMC config, but that's really not a priority, so that can be as low done on your list as it needs to be. Thanks!

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Re: [Partially in v3.0] Sticky Categories & Filters and visual indicator that Titles are being Filtered

Post by Pauven » Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:07 am

Wow, you certainly gave me a lot to think about (and I greatly appreciate the feedback, thanks!).

Manni wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:23 am Yes, I know some of the examples above can be done in two steps or more in CMC, but that's precisely why I have filters/categories: so that I can apply a complex filter that I often use in one step.

I think you've convinced me that a solution is needed. This is not something I was previously planning, so it will take me a while to figure out how to integrate this into the overall GUI plan.


Manni wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:23 am I work in film and I also teach a lot. So my collection is for pleasure, but also for work/research. I watch lots of films when I'm attached to a project or to prepare a lecture/workshop to get the best clips to illustrate some points, so I also have complex filters by genre etc. This is why I need the fastest possible access to a film / TV Series. I can watch five films a day or ten hours of series content during some periods of intense work. I also do some testing for madVR for example to help with the development, so I need to get to the specific clip I'm looking for in a specific film as quickly as possible. I guess this is why speed is of the essence, and why I use so many categories/filters: it's not just to watch a film once a day or once a week, it's to do that and do hours of research during the day and often hours of testing at night as well. Not all the time, of course, but when it's like that, CMC is very slow compared to CM.

Wow. You are a power user, far beyond me. Sometimes I have dreams of being able to watch multiple films in a day, but what you're describing sounds like work (pleasurable work, hopefully). I never imagined that CMC would be used for professional or academic purposes (even if only behind the scenes). I think this is very cool. And yes, I agree that CMC is not optimized for this type of workflow.


Manni wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:23 am I'm aware that my needs are very specific and I don't expect you to taylor CMC to them . It would just be great for everyone if CMC could get closer to the level of efficiency of MyMovies in MCE in this area. As long as you expect the user to go all the way up a list that takes half the screen to check a box and go all the way down to apply a filter/category, it will take a lot longer (twice on average, sometimes a lot more!) than the MyMovies way, which is a simple select and click. Another example: to go faster in MCE, I use the first letter of a category/filter to force a filter/category to be first accessible (using @ in the name if necessary). It works in MyMovies because the first category/filter alphabetically is the first selectable in the list, but it doesn't work in CMC because the first in the list in the furthest away (you have to go all the way to the top, then all the way back down). So all the tricks I created to get faster become moot in CMC...

I try to treat all my users the same - I treat functional requests equally and on a case by case basis. If fulfilling a request doesn't negatively affect other users (especially me, I'm always #1. no, seriously, I'm user #1), and can provide benefit to users in general, then I'm game to make it happen. This is no different - you have spoken and I have heard you. This morning I made some last minute changes to v3.0 that should hopefully alleviate some of your navigation pain, and I think everyone will benefit from these changes:

For Genres, if no Genres are currently selected when opening the Genres filter panel, then the starting point will be the middle Genre, instead of the bottom 'Clear...' option. By putting you in the middle of the Genres list, navigation in general should be quicker. If Genres are already selected (from previously applying a Genres filter), then the starting point will be on the bottom 'Clear...' option.

For Categories, I'm doing something similar, but instead of starting at the middle Category, it will start at the first. That way your alphabetical tricks will not be for moot.

But wait, there's more!

You can now use the [PLAY] button on your remote/keyboard to simultaneously select the Genre / Category you have highlighted and immediately apply the filter using the 'Match All Selected' option. You can still select multiple Genres / Categories before hitting PLAY, and they will all be included in the Match All Selected filtering. So if for example you want to filter on Musical Animations, you would first toggle Musical on, then navigate to Animations and hit PLAY, which will toggle Animations on too and immediately apply the Match All Selected filtering.

These changes don't remove any of the power of the current filtering (multiple selections and the Match Any Of method), while hopefully approaching the navigation speed of what you enjoyed with WMC. I look forward to hearing your feedback on this approach after you've played with it firsthand.

And to allay any worries, I don't see these improvements as negating the need for Combo-Filters in CMC.


Manni wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:23 am By the way, a minor request if it's easy to implement: I have four NAS boxes and a dozen of shares (I rip my discs in different shares depending mostly on the disc type, but also other factors, such as how often I need to access them: one box is on all day, others are on occasionally, others are mostly off). While I can add them all manually to the CMC config, they can't all be seen during a sync. Please could you centre the shares list vertically during a sync so that we can see as many shares as possible on that screen? Also it would be nice if at some point we could add a share without having to edit the CMC config, but that's really not a priority, so that can be as low done on your list as it needs to be. Thanks!

Wow, a dozen synced folders. Another use case that I just never imagined. And not being able to see that status for all of them all during the sync, yeah you surprised me on that one. I can see how that would be a problem.

You're using CME, right? If so, then let me propose an alternate solution to your challenges.

Now that CME can export the metadata, only for CMC to import it right back in, parsing it and creating the local CMC database, it's become painfully obvious that a more efficient solution is possible. The plan is to enhance CME to create the CMC database directly. This will completely eliminate the scanned media folders sync.

Instead, you would have CME running in the background on one 'master' PC, always looking for changes, and updating the master CMC DB image as changes occur. Then when you run CMC on any individual PC, it would check to see if it's DB copy is the latest, and if it isn't it would then ask the 'master' for the latest copy. Because the data flow is MM_DB > API > CME > CMC_DB > CMC, none of your NAS servers would even have to be online, and the Sync step becomes obsolete.

This approach should get really close to how My Movies in WMC behaved, while at the same time keeping the local data repository that makes CMC so fast (that MM API can be painfully slow at times).

Hopefully you'll agree with me when I say 'request denied', as I think what I have planned will be so much better. But feel free to challenge my proposal if you see issues with it.
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Re: [Partially in v3.0] Sticky Categories & Filters and visual indicator that Titles are being Filtered

Post by Manni » Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:06 am

Wow, thanks a lot for all these changes, they will all make a significant difference, no doubt :)

The changes re genres category with the change in positioning and use of Play sounds great, I'll let you know.

And the changes in CME vs CMC sync is of course a far better solution to the problem (as well as more significant, my minor request was mainly cosmetic/informative, while you proper fix is a big functional improvement). If CME does this in the background using the API, it means indeed no need to switch the NAS on and no need to run the sync in CMC. That's two big hassles removed and we're indeed moving much closer to native MM/MCE behaviour with CMC!

I can't wait to see these implemented!

Thanks a lot for listening. It looks like a second license is on its way. :)

Not that I think it was/is your primary motivation, I'm with you when you say that you're CMC's #1 user, but I always try to reward the efforts of user-friendly developers as much as I can, possibly because I was one in a former life (a long time ago, we're talking 6502/8088 assembler or forth, that kind of pre-historic, low level stuff) :)

Keep up the good work! :)

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