[Added to Roadmap] Amazon Prime, Netflix, and iTunes

[Teddyboy]

Hi Paul,
There are two media center plugins for Prime and Netflix that have been in development for years now. Maybe you're aware of them? I had totally forgotten about them since I no longer use media center. They are both quite good in spite of the fact that he does not have access to the api’s. The one glaring deficiency in the Prime plug-in is the inability to rent or purchase movies and tv series. Because media center is EOL, he has decided to stop developing the plug-ins. The plug-ins are free but not open source.

In his post on his site, he states that he is considering releasing the source code to the public through github, finding another developer, or both. As a side note, he took over the Prime plugin from another developer. You might want to take a look and see if what he has done thus far to see if it would be a good fit for your platform.

His name is Marc Davis. He’s a IT Pro/applications developer. His site is https://sharepointadept.com

Another piece of software to consider developing a plug-in if it’s feaseable is iHomeserver which is a iTunes server for whs V1, 2011, and Essentials. I’ve never used it, but I’m going to buy it after I rebuild my ancient whs 2011 server that has died. I’m amassing a huge iTunes library aside from my regular CDs, and it would be nice to have some sort of plug-in integration into your platform.

https://bizmodeller.com/iHomeServer/iHo ... tials.aspx

Just some things to consider for your roadmap.

Efrain

[Pauven]

Hi Efrain,

Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I did not know that these plugins existed. Adding streaming services is something I very much want to add to CMC.

While I can't say for sure what approach Marc is using for the Amazon Prime Video, here is his comments on the Netflix approach:

While my last streaming plugin (AmazonMCE) was a full Media Center native application (with the exception of the SilverLight player), this application will be a WinForm application with a MCML registration and launch point. Why? Because Netflix no longer provides the casual developer access to their API.

This approach has both advantages and disadvantages. The key advantage is that we’re just calling the web-based Netflix application via a web browser embedded in a WinForm app. I don’t need to worry about API access, designing a UI, getting access to their encrypted streams, etc. The primary downside is that the web application is not remote-friendly – and that is where the bulk of my work now resides – building a remote-control library that I can inject into their page and have it do the navigation, selection and playback controls we all expect a native WMC app to do.

Here is a short video showing the current progress of the Remote Control JS library. In this demo I can arrow-down to the first row of videos, select the first one (which is highlighted in red) and then I can invoke the Play function by clicking OK on the remote.

Essentially, the solution is basically converting remote control button presses into web-page clicks, and this functionality breaks every time the web page design changes, which is probably at least once a year. This is because these services block access to a development API - which is really stupid in my mind, but I guess they have their reasons. While I've certainly thought about creating this kind of input abstraction layer, I've been hesitant mainly because it breaks too often.

While it is not Netflix or Amazon Prime (or Hulu), the HDHomeRun is a device that both grabs Over The Air (OTA) free television signals and offers a monthly streaming package to compete with services like Hulu/Sling/YouTube TV, and most notably HDHomeRun has an API that I can program against. I have picked up one of these devices and I have been doing some development work with it, though as of right now it is not ready for sharing. If I can get it to work correctly, this will allow me to add streaming, OTA TV watching, a 14-day program guide, and DVR, all in one. To me this is the next step in recreating the WMC experience, and I plan to prioritize this over implementing services like Netflix that don't even offer an API.

To be clear, I'm not ruling out Netflix/Prime or other services, only that they are lower priority for now. It also might make more sense for me to develop a plug-in solution, so that others can contribute to the overall solution (like WMC, Kodi and the like) instead of implementing these services myself. I've never developed a plug-in solution before, so I've still go a fair amount of brainstorming and research to do before I attempt something like that. One thing I'm concerned about is how Kodi has become the go-to hub for illegal video downloading/streaming, something I don't agree with or wish to become liable for making possible.

I really do hope Marc chooses to release his code, for the betterment of all, and I could certainly learn a thing or two by browsing it. I'll go ahead and reach out to Marc to see if we can chat about options and requirements.

Another piece of software to consider developing a plug-in if it’s feaseable is iHomeserver which is a iTunes server for whs V1, 2011, and Essentials. I’ve never used it, but I’m going to buy it after I rebuild my ancient whs 2011 server that has died. I’m amassing a huge iTunes library aside from my regular CDs, and it would be nice to have some sort of plug-in integration into your platform.

I'm having a hard time understanding what you are recommending here. CMC can already browse and play your music collection (though certain features are still in development), even if it is iTunes. The only requirement is how you store your music library (one album per folder, and the cover art stored as a folder.jpg file in that folder).

What functionality are you wanting in CMC that iHomeServer provides?

Are you wanting CMC integration with iHomeServer or with iTunes?

Is it the streaming from iTunes that you are looking for? Podcasts? Airplay?

I greatly appreciate your feedback. Also, I encourage other CMC users to provide their feedback too. I'm always willing to change course if enough users want to go in a different direction.

Paul

[Teddyboy]

Thanks for replying! How interesting that you are looking into Silicon Dusts platform. I was looking at thier site last night before posting here. They’ve come a long way. The reason that I’m looking at is I want to cut the cord since cable tv is so expensive for not a lot of value. Why should I be forced to buy all these channel tiers when I only watch a handful of channels.

Part of my madness is driven by the mantra of one media app to rule them all. Media center was the closest platform during its time that came close to that. The secon closest platform to do that is Tivo which I currently own has tight integration between tv, movies, music. An example is if I search for the movie alien it will find it wether it’s on cable, or one of the available apps on the platform. The Ceton media center which never saw the light of day was an example of that type of integration. It’s jaring to me to have to switch remotes and inputs on the tv just so I can jump into media center to watch a movie in my collection.

Why is Netflix, Hulu, Prime, and pandora important to me? It’s because of their (netflix, prime, and Hulu) premium content that they produce for thier subscribers. Of course, it takes access to thier respective api’s for a price to make that type of application experience happen. For as good as those two mce plugins are, it’s still not a superior experience in my view. They break periodically which requires them to be revised. I can’t buy or rent content through the prime plug-in. I have to go to the site and buy it from there for it to show up in the plug-in.

I have subscriptions to these services which is why it so important to me. If silicon dust had them available on thier platform, then I’d be there in a heartbeat. Couple that up with your application being integrated into that then I’d be really happy. At this point I’m looking at Silicon Dust and Apple TV. Worse case I’d end up with Apple TV and your application running on my mini itx htpc.

As for iTunes I’d like to be able to search iTunes for new music keep the two libraries separate, but look as if they are one library. I have a iTunes subscription, so I can either stream or download the music including podcasts permanently to my iTunes collection. IHomeserver aggregates iTunes into one location so that I can distribute it to any part of my house, so I think you’d be interfacing with iHomeserver. My server is down and is in desperate need of upgrading which I am in the process of doing. Once it’s up I’ll buy the software and play with it, and then we can have a conversation about it.

Once my new server is up I’ll pick up your software as I think it’s mature enough for me to use. I’ll have to upgrade to power dvd to replace total media theatre as well. You need parental controls implemented and tv series needs more work as it’s not as nice as MyMovies which is why I still use that. I’ve certainly got my money’s worth out of MyMovies I paid for the points outright instead of contributing because I liked it so much. It’s getting time to move on though.

Thanks for your comments. I appreciate them, and I’m looking forward to continuing this conversation.
Efrain

[Pauven]

Part of my madness is driven by the mantra of one media app to rule them all. Media center was the closest platform during its time that came close to that.

My madness too! WMC was brilliant, and for a while there I was in heaven with My Movies, Cablecard, a Hulu plugin, and gaming. I don't understand how we went backwards.

While my original goal was to simply replace the My Movies functionality, my new goal is to create that elusive one media app to rule them all. Harder done than said, unfortunately.

Why is Netflix, Hulu, Prime, and pandora important to me? It’s because of their (netflix, prime, and Hulu) premium content that they produce for thier subscribers.

Yes, I agree 100%. But the trend is worrying to me, as cable/satellite TV is dying, being replaced by streaming (good), but instead of a single streaming service, you are forced to subscribe to more and more (CBS All Access, HBO, Disney is launching their own soon, etc.). I'm already at the point that I will subscribe to a service for only a single month a year, and binge watch all their shows in that month.

Having a Roku helps, and my dream solution is a Windows version of a Roku that I could embed in CMC. Wouldn't that be something.

I have subscriptions to these services which is why it so important to me. If silicon dust had them available on thier platform, then I’d be there in a heartbeat. Couple that up with your application being integrated into that then I’d be really happy. At this point I’m looking at Silicon Dust and Apple TV. Worse case I’d end up with Apple TV and your application running on my mini itx htpc.

Definitely. I understand that the HDHomeRun is a very different type of solution (live TV + DVR) from on-demand streaming services, and there is a need for both. From my vantage point, one thing I am seeing is that there are a LOT of users staying with WMC simply because of Cablecard and OTA TV, and its wonderful DVR functionality. These users won't consider CMC because it offers nothing to replace this capability. The Silicon Dust HDHomeRun already has their attention, and if I can integrate it into CMC, then that just might address their desires for live TV and DVR capability.

Silicon Dust just announced a new HDHomeRun this past week at CES, and it offers automatic commercial skipping and a built-in DVR!!! Hopefully the API survives intact.

On the flip side, all these Smart TVs, Chromecast and AppleTV and Roku and PlayStation etc. have pretty much already handled the need for streaming TV. Adding that functionality to CMC would make it just another option. It's hard to compete against the resources of these million/billion/trillion dollar companies who are still actively developing platforms for streaming, especially when a developer API is not offered for the most popular streaming platforms.

I still plan to try offering streaming integration, but my impression is that integrating the HDHomeRun is the wiser path at the moment. This is certainly not without its own challenges, though. While I have created a player to view the HDHomeRun content, and for the first 30 seconds or so it works wonderfully, within a few minutes the video quality degrades and eventually becomes a stuttering mess out of sync with the audio. So even having a API to develop against isn't the easy homerun (pun intended) I expected.

And maybe we'll get super lucky and Silicon Dust will decide to start offering Roku like on-demand streaming service integration. I think it is certainly possible and would be a wise move on their part.

As for iTunes I’d like to be able to search iTunes for new music keep the two libraries separate, but look as if they are one library. I have a iTunes subscription, so I can either stream or download the music including podcasts permanently to my iTunes collection. IHomeserver aggregates iTunes into one location so that I can distribute it to any part of my house, so I think you’d be interfacing with iHomeserver. My server is down and is in desperate need of upgrading which I am in the process of doing. Once it’s up I’ll buy the software and play with it, and then we can have a conversation about it.

Okay, that makes a bit of sense to me. Essentially, you want CMC to serve as a front-end to browse and play your music that would live on an iHomeserver.

I was always fascinated with WHS, but unfortunately I never picked one up. Not having one of my own will certainly make development harder. I've also never been an Apple guy, so I have very limited experience with iTunes, and obviously no experience with iHomeserver. I'm certainly willing to explore this type of solution with you, but as of yet I can't make any promises as I don't know what level of integration is feasible.

For the most part, it sounds like iHomeserver is just a solution to run iTunes as a service, and doesn't sound like it adds any functionality or an API, but maybe I'm mistaken. It also seems like you could do this on any PC, and would behave similarly on any PC as on WHS. If so, then it really just boils down to interfacing with iTunes. But I'm really just making some educated guesses at this point, and maybe I'm way off base.

Once my new server is up I’ll pick up your software as I think it’s mature enough for me to use. I’ll have to upgrade to power dvd to replace total media theatre as well. You need parental controls implemented and tv series needs more work as it’s not as nice as MyMovies which is why I still use that. I’ve certainly got my money’s worth out of MyMovies I paid for the points outright instead of contributing because I liked it so much. It’s getting time to move on though.

PowerDVD is not the only option. DVDFab Player works (and can do disc menus like PowerDVD). MPC also works great, but won't have Blu-ray menus (which might be desirable for some users) and is free. PowerDVD is still my favorite go-to for watching Movies, though I like MPC better for watching TV Episodes.

Parental controls is something I've been planning to implement, but every time I ask no one seems to need it. Since you seem to need it, that means you can help set the requirements for how this needs to work.

You're right about My Movies having a more polished TV Series experience. There is a bit more I plan to add to CMC to improve the experience, but my hands are somewhat tied by the lack of meta-data exported by My Movies (TV Series info isn't exported correctly). The My Movies API might offer some solutions, so I plan to look at that in the future - which would be a benefit to users like you who have already invested in My Movies points and have API access. That said, there are some CMC users who say they actually prefer the CMC GUI for TV Series. Perhaps as I add functionality I will make it a user option as to how TV Series are presented.

Thanks for your comments. I appreciate them, and I’m looking forward to continuing this conversation.

Ditto!

Paul

[jachin99]

Paul, I still run a home server 2011 box, and plan to for the forseeable future. I tried out IHomeServer but don't want to bother maintaining an apple library either. With that being said, IHomeServer did strike me as a fascinating product so I grabbed a license. From its appearance, it looks like it could give users a single storefront to purchase locally stored content to include music, movies, and TV. I know ITunes also has a vast podcast library, and probably even more I'm not thinking of. IHomeServer offer an option, I believe, to serve up ITunes via DLNA. If your program could interface with a given DLNA library, and break down said library by content type (Music, Movies, etc) via folder structure then you might have a good start. The ability to navigate content libraries via a large, remote friendly attractive interface is just about the only thing that separates the media consumption experience via media center from the media consumption experience via something like windows explorer (Which is much more dull).

Building an attractive, remote friendly method of navigating DLNA libraries would also open up CMC to other services like Play On. I'm not advocating for this specifically because I don't know how limited DLNA source browsing is, and I'm not sure what kind of development time would go into it but it is something to consider. Speaking of Windows media center, Tubecore, a long forgotten plugin that is unsupported but still works, currently does something just like this in Windows Media Center. Getting back on subject, I don't know how different a native plugin that interfaces with structured data served via IHomeServer would be or whether it would be a better choice but I did want to bring it up.

[Pauven]

Hey jachin99, you make some very interesting points!

I hadn't even thought about DLNA. I have very little experience with DLNA myself. I know I have a few devices that put out a DLNA service, and to be honest since I've never really had a use for it I really only wanted to disable these services so I wouldn't see them on my network. I did install a special DLNA Docker service on my Unraid server a few months ago so that the Silicon Dust HDHomerun would see a target drive to store DVR recordings.

And that's pretty much the extent of my experience.

If your program could interface with a given DLNA library, and break down said library by content type (Music, Movies, etc) via folder structure then you might have a good start. The ability to navigate content libraries via a large, remote friendly attractive interface is just about the only thing that separates the media consumption experience via media center from the media consumption experience via something like windows explorer (Which is much more dull).

I think that is an incredible idea, and an awesome fit for CMC. I don't see any reason why this wouldn't be feasible, but obviously I have a lot of research to do to figure out how to consume a DLNA service. Maybe I'll get lucky and someone has already programmed a DLNA library that I can just plug in.

Building an attractive, remote friendly method of navigating DLNA libraries would also open up CMC to other services like Play On.

Are you thinking you want other devices to Play On CMC (CMC as the Target), or are you thinking you want CMC to be able to Play On other devices (CMC as the Source)?

I think Play On might be a bigger challenge, and like DLNA this is something I just don't have any experience with. It would be most helpful to me if someone who uses Play On could write a short story describing how and why they use it, and how they would want to use it if CMC supported it.

Thanks again for sharing, you've really given me some things to think about.

Paul