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What is Unraid and how to build an Unraid media server

Show off your HTPC builds, NAS Servers, and any other hardware. Great place to ask for hardware help too.
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Pauven
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Re: What is Unraid and how to build an Unraid media server

Post by Pauven » Fri Apr 01, 2022 1:13 pm

That sucks, sorry to hear you are having troubles too.

I've been troubleshooting mine this morning, and the issue appears to be Call Traces that are known to occur on Ryzen systems related to the Linux kernel version in 6.9.x. I think this happened last year too, last time I upgraded to 6.9.2, but never got that far in my troubleshooting.

My log is full of these errors. Not sure if there's a solution, still figuring things out.

Code: Select all

Apr  1 10:53:07 Tower nginx: 2022/04/01 10:53:07 [error] 9804#9804: *2157788 upstream timed out (110: Connection timed out) while reading upstream, client: 192.168.1.218, server: , request: "GET /Dashboard HTTP/1.1", upstream: "fastcgi://unix:/var/run/php5-fpm.sock:", host: "tower", referrer: "http://tower/Main"
Apr  1 10:53:19 Tower kernel: CPU: 10 PID: 0 Comm: swapper/10 Tainted: G S                5.10.28-Unraid #1
Apr  1 10:53:19 Tower kernel: Call Trace:
Apr  1 10:56:19 Tower kernel: CPU: 10 PID: 0 Comm: swapper/10 Tainted: G S                5.10.28-Unraid #1
Apr  1 10:56:19 Tower kernel: Call Trace:
Apr  1 10:59:19 Tower kernel: CPU: 10 PID: 0 Comm: swapper/10 Tainted: G S                5.10.28-Unraid #1
Apr  1 10:59:19 Tower kernel: Call Trace:
Apr  1 11:02:19 Tower kernel: CPU: 10 PID: 0 Comm: swapper/10 Tainted: G S                5.10.28-Unraid #1
Apr  1 11:02:19 Tower kernel: Call Trace:
Apr  1 11:05:19 Tower kernel: CPU: 10 PID: 0 Comm: swapper/10 Tainted: G S                5.10.28-Unraid #1
Apr  1 11:05:19 Tower kernel: Call Trace:
Apr  1 11:08:19 Tower kernel: CPU: 10 PID: 0 Comm: swapper/10 Tainted: G S                5.10.28-Unraid #1
Apr  1 11:08:19 Tower kernel: Call Trace:
I don't think any drives have red-balled, but then again my GUI's not updating properly so I really don't know. Fingers crossed.
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Manni
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Re: What is Unraid and how to build an Unraid media server

Post by Manni » Fri Apr 01, 2022 1:25 pm

I'm with intel on both servers, so not connected with my issue here. I heard that Unraid could have issues with AMD, so not sure I'll ever replace the MB/CPU/RAM on these (unless a part fails), the performance is fine for what I do with these.

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Re: What is Unraid and how to build an Unraid media server

Post by Pauven » Fri Apr 01, 2022 1:48 pm

Yeah, as big a fan as I am of AMD products, I have a hard time recommending them for Unraid. Not really Lime-Tech's fault, it's the underlying Linux kernel that seems to keep introducing errors.

Though as I'm digging into other reports of similar issues, I'm learning it may not be an AMD issue after all.

Some users have pointed to Nvidia GPU's (of which I have one), and others networking issues. Looking closer at my Call Trace, I see a bit too many references to [mvsas], which is my Marvel based Highpoint 2760A 24-port SAS controller. Fix Common Problems always warns about my Marvel controller, reporting many users complain of drive and parity check issues. I've ignored this warning for years, since I bought my 2760A almost 9 years ago and never experience any issues with it.

Maybe I've finally reached the end of the line with it...
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Re: What is Unraid and how to build an Unraid media server

Post by Manni » Fri Apr 01, 2022 1:58 pm

Possibly... I highly recommend the LSI variants (I have Avago, Broadcom and I can't remember the third one) but all show up as LSI and they work flawlessly (unlike the Adaptec I bought initially). I'll update the thread when my pre-clear finishes, if it goes fine it might be the fine-tune pre-clear plugin that I've disabled.

By the way, I had an issue on the other server with an external SATA that I used to restore a backup. The restore went fine on two different disks, but the third one is giving me issues in that server. It looks like Unraid got it confused with one of the other disks, and even if I delete the history or load it in a different bay, it can't read the content and I can't unmount the partition. It's automatically mounted, but UD reports "not array" greyed out and if you try to unmount it tries for a while then nothing happens. I can read the content fine on the PC (and I suspect on the other Unraid server) so it's not the data itself, just the way that unraid server sees it. Weird. Maybe I took one of the previous disks out and forgot to unmount it first, but I would assume it could see the different as the disc IDs are different.

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Re: What is Unraid and how to build an Unraid media server

Post by Pauven » Fri Apr 01, 2022 2:12 pm

Manni wrote: Fri Apr 01, 2022 1:58 pm I highly recommend the LSI variants (I have Avago, Broadcom and I can't remember the third one) but all show up as LSI and they work flawlessly (unlike the Adaptec I bought initially).
I have a hard time letting go of my Highpoint. It cost me around $700, and it's been an awesome solution. I'm not looking forward to replacing it, and I'm hoping it's not the issue.

Because I have SAS drive cages, I need a SAS controllers (or those SATA to SAS converter cables). I love the simplicity and cleanness of my setup, so if I do get something new, I'd prefer to stay with a SAS solution.

I've never used external SATA. My external backup drives are all USB, and I connect them through a USB hub so it's a single cable solution for 5 16TB backup drives. It's cheap and it works.
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Re: What is Unraid and how to build an Unraid media server

Post by Manni » Fri Apr 01, 2022 3:13 pm

I don't use external SATA either (I only did so briefly before USB 3.0), I meant SATA drives that are not part of the array and that I connect in one of the free bays (I set 21-22 for that, like you did, between the two parity drives on the bottom row). I usually have a few of them that I use in a USB 3 dock on the PC side for small backups (like my data or system partition, but when I move 150TB of data around like I'm doing at the moment at some point I have to use whatever is lying around. I also have a 16TB WD external USB drive that's quite good, but I almost never use it, except during migrations like this. Anyway, with unraid, they are just SATA drives connected through SAS like any other drive, just not part of the raid array (unassigned devices).

Once the two Unraid servers will be fully openrational, they'll hold all my data, I do a backup of my essential data to a 10TB drive that goes off location, and I'll use the Qnap TS859, Synology 2411 and 1211 and the Thecus N5200 as storage for backup. So I won't use much external drives anymore.

All the adapters I mention use SAS cables, that's what I do with my new cases. SFF-8087 on the case side, and either the same on the controller side or SFF-8643. 4 drives per cable/connector, six cables to get feed the 24-bays of my chassis. I only had SATA breakout cables when the drives were in my tower case. I would recommend the 9305-16i and the 9211-8i combo, two controlers for the 24 drives and no bandwidth limitation issue even with PCI 2.0 x8 (the 16-port would max at 250MB/s, which is fine for most HDDs). I wouldn't recommend the 24-port unless you have PCI 3.0 8X, in which case bandwidth goes up to 7.8GB/s (325MB/s per drive all drives used, enough for any HDD).

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Re: What is Unraid and how to build an Unraid media server

Post by Pauven » Fri Apr 01, 2022 3:39 pm

So far, the current guidance on the Unraid forum has been to ditch my 2760A. Sigh....

My motherboard has two PCIe 3.0 x8 slots available. Additionally, it has 10 SATA3 ports, 2 of which are on an 3rd party controller, but 8 of which utilize the x370 chipset.

While I would have liked a single card solution, prices range from $600-900 for a 24-port controller. I did that for the 2760A, and that seems like too much money to do it again.

Even the 16-port cards are too expensive, cheapest option I've found so far is $333.

Since I've got 2 PCIe 3.0 8x slots available, I'm thinking I can do two 9201-8i class cards at $75, for $150. For the remaining 8 drive bays, I can buy a couple 4xSATA to Mini-SAS reverse breakout cables for around $28, and simply use those 8 motherboard SATA ports. Not only is this the most cost-effective solution at under $200 bucks, but also probably the most energy efficient, as each of those HBA cards consume a fair amount of power.

For years now, ever since I bought my Threadripper, I've planned to one day put it in my Unraid server. PCIe slots are definitely not a problem on a Threadripper motherboard. I just checked, and my X399 board also has 8 SATA3 ports, so the solution above will work with both the current and future motherboards.

Who knows, perhaps I can even sell my 2760A for more than $200. That would ease the pain...
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Re: What is Unraid and how to build an Unraid media server

Post by Pauven » Fri Apr 01, 2022 3:53 pm

Manni wrote: Fri Apr 01, 2022 3:13 pm I would recommend the 9305-16i and the 9211-8i
While the 9305-16i is a great card, it's more than I need for spinning rust speeds. If I was doing an SSD server, the extra speed would be needed and would justify the higher price, energy and heat output. Art of Server has an hour-long video on YouTube talking about all the options, and he definitely mentioned the 93xx series run hotter and that the 92xx series is the lowest power option for HDD's.

All things considered, the 9201-8i, which is the same as the 9211-8i minus the ROM chip, seems like the best option. Cheap, lowest power, known compatibility with Unraid, used by thousands of Unraid users so if there's any issues in future releases there will be lots of screaming on my behalf.

This is the same card I advised Jamie to get earlier in this thread (page 2), back when they were $56 each. I'm finding them now for $84 shipped, so 50% more expensive.

I'm also seeing the Dell H310, which is essentially the 9211-8i, for about the same price, and he mentions it's a little more robust.
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Re: What is Unraid and how to build an Unraid media server

Post by Manni » Fri Apr 01, 2022 3:58 pm

This is not technically true. The 9305-16i is limited to 4GB/s, so 250MB/s per drive all drives used. Many recent drives are 280MB/s, some of them manage to sustain that for quite a bit of the drive, so you already lose a bit of performance with any PCI 2.0 8x controller if not 8-port. The 24-port controller breaks that limit to 330MB/s (PCI-E 3.0 so 7.8BG/s bandwidth), which gives a bit of headroom in case they manage to make HDDs a bit faster, as they have done consistently. So not just useful for SSDs. Without PCI 3.0 8X or better, it's a bad option though as you're limited to 166MB/s all drives used. In that case, you get better performance with multiple adapters, but you need 3 PCI 2.0 8X, which isn't common. Not an issue with your use of onboard SATA though and 2 x 8-port with PCI 2.0 8x. An 8-port with PCI 2.0 8X gives you 500MB/s per drive, which is plenty for HDDs.

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Re: What is Unraid and how to build an Unraid media server

Post by Pauven » Fri Apr 01, 2022 5:00 pm

Manni wrote: Fri Apr 01, 2022 3:58 pm The 9305-16i is limited to 4GB/s, so 250MB/s per drive all drives used.
Not sure where you got that info. Best I can tell, it's a PCI-e 3.0 x8, so 7.877 GB/s for almost 500MB/s per drive. Perhaps you have yours installed in a PCIe 2.0 slot?

Regardless, no way I'm paying 9305-16i money. I think 8TB drives are my last upgrade for this server, and with 20 data drives that gets me to 160TB of storage, about double where I am now. 250MB/s is plenty. If I ever go with bigger drives, it will be in a second, smaller server. Ideally, just 5 or 6 drives (4x data plus 1 or 2 parity), something I'll look at when drive capacity hits 30-40 TB/drive. My collection is growing slower with every passing year, and my backlog of movies to watch is slowly becoming insurmountable. At some point in my lifetime (hopefully), drive capacity will be large enough to hold my entire collection on a single drive...

And if I ever realize my dream of an SSD server, it will be a completely new build, so none of this matters.

I think my main risk here is not the 2x 9201-8i's, but rather the 8x SATA ports on the motherboard.

According to the block diagram below, the 9201-8i's will direct connect to the CPU via PCIe 3.0 at 8x each. My cache drive is NVMe, so that's also direct connect to the CPU.

The 8 sata ports are coming from the x370 south bridge. It has a PCIe 3.0 x4 connection, so that's plenty of bandwidth, but it's shared with other devices (USB, other PCIe slots like where my GPU is installed).

image.png
image.png (153.06 KiB) Viewed 7146 times

But my motherboard also has an Aquantia 5Gb Ethernet port, which I'm using, so that steals some of the bandwidth and I'm not sure from where. If I had to guess, it's using some of the PCI Express 2.0 lanes coming off the southbridge.

For the most part, I don't really see any issue, since I hardly ever use USB and the tiny GPU I have is using just PCIe 2.0 1x. And I don't typically using a lot of networking when a parity check is running. But I've never used these SATA ports before, so I don't know how well they work. Hopefully the x370 doesn't get overworked, and there's no constraints when using all 8 at the same time. I'm thinking I will reserve them for my bottom two drive bay rows. That's where I have my parity drives, but also where I usually keep those 2 open slots, so normally only 6 of 8 drives in use there, so slightly lower total bandwidth requirements.
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