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Anyone having issues browsing private Network?

Helpful advice for getting the most out of Chameleon MediaCenter
Jamie
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Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:26 pm

Anyone having issues browsing private Network?

Post by Jamie » Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:26 pm

Hi,

I was wondering whether others are having issues browsing their LAN through file explorer today. My PC was working fine until 3 p.m. today and then MM CM could not find my network devices. File explorer too! I have been battling this for 7 hours now.

I came across two articles on the web. One for windows 7.

https://www.askwoody.com/2019/january-p ... etworking/

One for windows 10.

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/win ... 45bcb22790



Jamie
Last edited by Jamie on Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

Jamie
Posts: 942
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:26 pm

Re: Anyone having issues browsing private Network?

Post by Jamie » Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:47 pm

The standard user has the same issues. I have a feeling that it is a netbios issue

Ruled out Norton antivirus by uninstall.

Checking router ruled out it can see all the devices.

Seems as though only windows networked devices/computers show up.

Anything based on smb 1.0. 2, 3 don't show up on any of my windows 10 pc's.

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Pauven
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Re: Anyone having issues browsing private Network?

Post by Pauven » Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:38 am

My Windows 10 PC's network browsing behavior is unchanged, though obviously the results could vary based upon the network devices you have.

Though you've probably already done this, power-cycling all network devices is recommended.

Since you're exploring setting up an Unraid server, here's something you should know, and it might even be related: Unraid uses SMB by default, and my Win10 PC's can't see it unless I re-enable SMB 1.0 support.

Control Panel > Programs > Turn Windows features on or off > SMB 1.0/CIFS File Sharing Support > SMB 1.0/CIFS Client:

image.png
image.png (44.17 KiB) Viewed 12788 times

Microsoft sees this as a security risk, and began turning SMBv1 off in Win10. Perhaps they've done the same to Win7 now. Apparently threats like Wannacry, Petya, NotPetya and others exploit SMBv1, so it is a security risk. You'll have to decide for yourself if the risk is worth it.

Paul
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Jamie
Posts: 942
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:26 pm

Re: Anyone having issues browsing private Network?

Post by Jamie » Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:06 pm

Hi Paul,

Yes I took the risk with windows 10 1803.

My early drobos have the same issue with smb 1.0. My two newer Drobos use SmB 3.0.

I have tracked the issue down to the Master Browser. I never heard of that before. All my PCs are affected due to them being all windows 10 and that Microsoft is shutting down the Master Browser on all windows 10 machines. If you have a windows 7, or 8 PC you may be in luck. The windows 7 machine can serve as a master Browser for the windows 10 PCs.

I am trying to get my router to act as the master browser and turning it off on windows 10. I can see the windows PC's, but not the drobos or a netgear NAS. I can ping these devices from all PC's just not see, or map them. MS has screwed this whole networking stuff up.

http://www.boristheengineer.co.uk/netwo ... rowser.htm

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Pauven
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Re: Anyone having issues browsing private Network?

Post by Pauven » Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:47 pm

We Unraid users have a different solution at our disposal:

image.png
image.png (126.56 KiB) Viewed 12782 times
President, Chameleon Consulting LLC
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Jamie
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Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:26 pm

Re: Anyone having issues browsing private Network?

Post by Jamie » Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:48 pm

Okay, I got all my samba windows 10 devices all showing up in windows 10 again.

I had to force my asus rt-ac3200 router to be the master Browser for windows.

To do this I had to change my routers firmware to be asuswrt merlin. This is an enhanced version of the asus router firmware

https://asuswrt.lostrealm.ca/

I then had to turn on force master browser on the asus router.

https://www.snbforums.com/threads/help- ... ser.48862/

I had to turn off the windows 10 master browser setting on all my windows 10 PCs.

http://www.boristheengineer.co.uk/netwo ... rowser.htm


I don't know why suddenly at 3 p.m. yesterday afternoon, all my PCs could no longer see my samba devices on windows 10. Seems like MS updated something. I can't explain that. I was happily ripping my discs in MM CM and suddenly MM CM could not see any of my Drobos.

I hope this can help someone if they find themselves in the same dilemma.

Paul, If you have an unraid server or a windows 7 PC, one of them might be acting as a Master Browser for you
Last edited by Jamie on Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jamie
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Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:26 pm

Re: Anyone having issues browsing private Network?

Post by Jamie » Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:49 pm

Pauven wrote: Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:47 pm We Unraid users have a different solution at our disposal:

Good to know. I think that I will stick with my asus router for right now.
Last edited by Jamie on Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Pauven
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Re: Anyone having issues browsing private Network?

Post by Pauven » Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:18 pm

Jamie wrote: Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:48 pm I don't know why suddenly at 3 p.m. yesterday afternoon, all my PCs could no longer see my samba devices on windows 10.

Most likely you only had a single PC operating as the Master Browser, and it was updated/restarted at that time, removing it from that role.

I've been using Unraid as my Master Browser for so many years now, I never even think about it. I don't really understand exactly what the Master Browser does, all I know is that in the Unraid forums they say it is a best practice to set up an Unraid server as the Master Browser.
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Jamie
Posts: 942
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:26 pm

Re: Anyone having issues browsing private Network?

Post by Jamie » Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:54 pm

Pauven wrote: Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:18 pm
Most likely you only had a single PC operating as the Master Browser, and it was updated/restarted at that time, removing it from that role.

I've been using Unraid as my Master Browser for so many years now, I never even think about it. I don't really understand exactly what the Master Browser does, all I know is that in the Unraid forums they say it is a best practice to set up an Unraid server as the Master Browser.

I guess windows somehow uses it to determine what PC's or network devices are on the LAN.

I guess one or only one device should be used as a master browser device. It is also related to Samba so that is why my drobos and netgear box could not be seen. I don't know what MS is up to, but I wish they stop screwing up my windows PCs. I spent all afternoon and night debugging and researching the issue. At 5 a.m. once I determined that it was a Master Browser issue, I went to bed for a few hours and fixed the issue once I got some rest.

I don't know how ordinary users with network drives and NAS devices deal with this. I learned a lot about Samba and Master Browser last night but it wasn't a fun evening. I remember when you could be oblivious to how the network did it's thing. Everything seemed to work by magic.

Jamie

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Pauven
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Re: Anyone having issues browsing private Network?

Post by Pauven » Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:31 pm

Jamie wrote: Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:54 pm I don't know how ordinary users with network drives and NAS devices deal with this.

I was wondering the exact same thing earlier today. For a brief moment way back in 2000 I was Cisco Certified, and was engineering and installing ISP networks for apartment communities. Yet I'm baffled at how poorly Microsoft's home networking works.

I found this article interesting: https://scottiestech.info/2018/01/30/ti ... indows-10/

I don't understand if HomeGroup solves the SMB v1 device issue - my guess is no, though I may need to try this and see how it works.

I'm a little confused, as you said your new Drobos use SMB 3.0 and show up okay. The Unraid release notes indicate that they are using Samba v4.7 or later, so I don't understand why it doesn't show without the Windows SMBv1 client, but your Drobos do.
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