What would make a good UHD HTPC

[Pauven]

No, I haven't gone beyond the case and now the cpu cooler. I have been holding out to see if Powerdvd 20 will support nvidia GPUs for HDR and also see if it still allows non SGX compatible PCs for decrypted discs.

Yes on non-SGX. My AMD CPU is definitely not Intel-SGX compliant.

HDR is the only question. It definitely isn't working on my AMD CPU (integrated graphics). If it doesn't work on Nvidia (In-Stock ETA is the 12th, so 1-2 weeks out before I have an answer), then that means if you want this feature on PowerDVD 20, you would have to use an Intel CPU with integrated graphics, and definitely get one with more graphics oomph.

Regarding RAM, for madVR it was consuming all of my video RAM, but that's an interesting question with integrated graphics that partition off some of your CPU's RAM for video. The PC I got has 8GB, plenty for Windows, but 2GB are allocated to graphics. 6GB is still just enough for programs, but 2GB of graphics RAM is probably not quite enough for madVR, as it is fully consumed. I need to check the BIOS to see how much more RAM I can allocate to graphics, but I think I'm close to the max already. But the more you allocate to graphics, the less you have for programs, and 4-5GB is a little slim compared to 6GB.

So my recommendation is this: If using Intel with integrated graphics, 16GB, and hopefully you can allocate 4GB to graphics leaving 12 for programs. If using a dedicated Nvidia GPU which has it's own RAM, definitely get a 4GB or larger card, and then you can get by with just 8GB of RAM for the CPU. But, and this is a big butt, I'm not sure how much RAM you can allocate to graphics on Intel, and this may vary based upon CPU or Motherboard/BIOS. So you might need to do some research (i.e. download the motherboard manual) to see how much RAM you can allocate to graphics before committing to using integrated graphics.

I don't know how well madVR runs on Intel graphics. Perhaps you can find that answer somewhere online. Regarding your question about madVR running on AMD - the real concern is the graphics, as madVR seems to be running on the graphics engine, not the CPU. My AMD CPU has integrated graphics, and all the Intel solutions are integrated graphics, but you can also do a discrete GPU of either AMD or Nvidia.

Of the discrete options, Nvidia is likely the best, but that breaks Intel SGX compliance (and possible HDR). Of the integrated options, I don't know if Intel or AMD runs better. It's also important to know that there is more than one flavor of integrated graphics too. For Intel, you have to get at least HD 630 or Iris Pro, and UHD 645 or Iris Plus are more powerful and might be better for madVR.

My AMD 3400G has Vega11 graphics, but like I said that's on the weak side. An AMD 4xxx series would be better, but AMD is not selling them individually in the US, only as part of an OEM system. And the AMD 5xxx series will probably be announced next week at CES. So right now, I would only recommend an AMD CPU if you are doing a dedicated Nvidia GPU (and the CPU lower price should help pay for the GPU). Otherwise, an Intel CPU with graphics would ensure SGX compliance, HDR functionality in PowerDVD20, and possibly madVR support.

[Jamie]

Regarding a GPU can I get by with a RTX 3060TI or do I need to get closer to $700 to $1000? If the better TV watching card is over $500 I will have to start saving my dimes . Can I get by with a card less than $500?

The 30 series nvidea GPU has HDMI 2.1 which should last for a while before needing an upgrade. it should have 8 GB graphics memory and I think it has 120 megahertz/s refresh rate too. It is 9 1/2" long and 4.5 wide. Do you have a recommendation?

By the way. The TV I plan to use is a TCL 6000 or 8000 series. VIZIO is also on my mind.

Regarding a MB I find that a board that supports a RTX 3060 TI GPU includes the MSI B365M PRO-VDH, Gigabyte B365M DS3H, ASRock B450M-HDV R4.0, ASRock B460M Pro4, ASRock B365M Pro4, and the Asus ROG STRIX B460-I GAMING. As you can see they are all intel compatible boards. I have not ruled out AMD yet. What brands do you like and what should I consider? the Asrock b450M Pro4 looks like a good choice

I picked these from this url https://pcpartpicker.com/products/mothe ... ith=tWVG3C

Thanks Paul
Last edited by Jamie on Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Pauven]

Honestly, I'm hoping you can get by with Intel integrated graphics, and not spend a dime on an Nvidia GPU.

That said, if you do go the route of an Nvidia GPU, I really don't think you need to go high-end. For the same 4K purpose as you're seeking, I just bought a GTX 1650 for $152. This met a very specific requirement of mine (or more accurately, the HP PC I bought) in that it maxes out at 75W, which is the PCIe bus power delivery limit, and it does not use any external power connectors. It has double the memory (4GB) and double the performance as compared to the AMD Ryzen 3400G APU in the PC. Since the 3400G was almost good enough for 4K playback with madVR, I'm fairly confident the GTX 1650 will deliver perfection - for my needs.

Now, that last point, "for my needs", deserves exploration. For the most part, I just want to playback smoothly the 4K content exactly as it was mastered. So madVR will be doing virtually nothing to improve the 4K image, simply passing it through. While watching 1080p Blu-ray or 640p DVD, madVR will be primarily performing upscaling duties, and this is likely the biggest challenge for the graphics card, so hopefully the GTX 1650 is up to the challenge.

There are other users out there that have much more demanding workloads for madVR. Chief among those is HDR Dynamic Tone Mapping (DTM). From what I understand (and I'm by no means an authority, I barely understand this stuff myself), DTM is important when you have a less than perfect display. For example, even expensive projectors these days can't do HDR. DTM allows you to take an HDR video and map it down to your specific display's/projector's capabilities. Yes, your display/projector already has tone mapping built-in, but it is inferior to what madVR DTM can do. It reminds me of why I got into HTPC's in the first place, to upscale my DVD's to look better on my HDTV.

The better the display you purchase, I believe the less impact madVR DTM will have, so your need or desire for DTM is related to your TV, but to be fair to some extent DTM can probably help just about any TV we can afford.

If you decide you do want to do DTM, then you need to reconsider the graphics card. No longer would I recommend an Nvidia GTX series, and instead you would want to go RTX. Mathias (aka Madshi of madVR fame) has been publicly recommending RTX cards, which include the Tensor cores, over anything else. Even if madVR isn't making special use of the Tensor cores today, the writing seems to be on the wall that they will be utilized in the future. In this case, you would do well to use the madVR Labs Envy Pro (not Extreme) as a template for your component purchases.

Interestingly, I found this: http://madvr.com/EE3080FAQ.pdf

So as of a few months ago, they were still using the 2080 Super. If this has you interested, have I got a deal for you. At the beginning of June I bought an spare EVGA GeForce RTX 2080 Super XC Ultra Gaming to use for Folding at Home (FaH) to help scientist with understanding the new coronavirus. For a couple months, I was using all my PC's and video cards in the house doing number crunching, hoping to help. Eventually the power bills arrived and I realized this was an expensive hobby, and I quit FaH at the end of July. Now I have a spare 2080 Super doing absolutely nothing that I used for 2 months, and I've been thinking of selling it. Because of a worldwide shortage of video cards, almost everything's out of stock, and the stock that is available is $$$$$ overpriced. If you're interested we can work out a deal.

Of course, you may be tempted to go with a RTX 3080, or even RTX 3070, both of which are faster than the 2080 Super, and include HDMI 2.1 (the 2080 is HDMI 2.0). Those are even more expensive, overpriced due to high demand, and challenging to find in stock. It's just not a good time to be shopping for video cards. I'm not sure how much better for madVR they would be, as their Pro model does almost everything you could want for 4K60, and the Extreme model seems more tailored to 8K, or possible turning on a few more bits and bobs for 4K. If you're running 4K at 24 Hertz instead of 60Hz, it seems that the 2080 Super pretty much does everything extremely well.

Which reminds me, I need to try using madVR with 24Hz instead of 60Hz. I tried it briefly once, I think with PowerDVD, and it looked horrible, so I quickly went back to 60. But after looking at the Envy Model Comparison chart I linked above, I'm realizing that 24Hz may allow my Ryzen 3400G to smoothly handle 4K with madVR. That would be pretty sweet, as I think all my 4K discs are 24fps films anyway.

Pretty much any motherboard is going to support any video card, you'd really have to go out of your way to pick something that wouldn't work. I think it's more important to pick your CPU first, then pick a good motherboard compatible with that CPU that has the features you're looking for.

[Pauven]

WARNING: 9.5mm slim UHD drives do not come in a "friendly" hardware revision, even if flashed to old firmware versions. That means that foxy won't be able to help you if you use a 9.5mm slim drive for UHD.

Apparently, the only "friendly" drives are all full-size. I made my mistake while reading a list of flash-able UHD drives, and didn't notice that some drives had "Friendly" in the description, while others had "Official", and they grouped them all together in the same list! I paid a lot of money for a v1.0 flashed "Official" drive that foxy isn't interested in...

Apparently these "Official" drives will work with other software, so that's why they are being offered.

The good news is that if you stick with the Silverstone case you picked out, it has a big beautiful full-sized 5.25" drive slot.

[Jamie]

v1.0 flashed "Officia

Apparently these "Official" drives will work with other software, so that's why they are being offered.

The good news is that if you stick with the Silverstone case you picked out, it has a big beautiful full-sized 5.25" drive slot.

The monkey - the Russians and Makey all work with official drives. I was hoping the FOX would have had that issue solved by now but they ran into some problems which they thought would help them with 2.1 and official drives. I haven't seen anything about those problems for six months now.

Fortunately I took your advice and bought 3 friendly drives when they first became available. I have one drive for my desktop and now 1 for the new HTPC when I get the parts.

Jamie

[Pauven]

I made a few tweaks to your post. I thought it was a little too helpful and informative.

[Jamie]

Thanks

[Pauven]

One more reason to go with full-size blu-ray drives vs. the slim units - those slim units are noisy little buggers. I even tried using speed control features to slow down read speeds, and they spinning noise is just annoyingly audible and high-pitched.

I'm strongly considering building another new HTPC to replace this one. My primary goal was to play physical 4K discs, and I completely failed in that regard, as not only do 4K discs not play but the drive is too noisy for comfortable Blu-ray/DVD playback. Even though this PC does almost everything else pretty well, it feels like a miserable failure since it's no good for discs.

I can repurpose this PC for non-disc playback elsewhere, so it's not a total loss.

[Jamie]

I think I remember that when I purchased my Friendly drive that you were going to buy some extra friendly drives too. Did you go through with the purchase? my drive is pretty quiet unless it has problems reading a disk.

[Pauven]

I have 6 friendly drives, 5 in use and one I plan to keep as an offline spare. I just ordered a 7th drive, friendly hardware that needs to be flashed friendly.

I know all that sounds excessive, but I'm actually contemplating getting some more. These drives don't last forever, and my drives get a lot of use. I probably should order another 5 or 6 to insure my investment, before the opportunity to buy is gone forever.